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This is what is called a distinction based on will.

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You as an "auntie" DO NOT have a different will than you as a "daughter" to say so is a ridiculous notion. However Jesus makes the distinction. Further,Jesus prays to the Father. You don't ask yourself as auntie anything do you? When you are auntie, speak to your daughter you as say Nonetheless, this is the relationship between teh Father and son as outlined in scripture. Once again, this is a distinction as confirmed all the way through teh WORD of God that you miss in reading the scripture for whatever reason.

So there are is solid and sound biblical support for my opinion and what I conclude in this article. So thanks and I appreciate your comments, but stay around you may add a new dimension to your current biblical understanding. Burnett My apologies I forgot all about this post. But you presented a great deal of sound doctrine teaching that is so necessary in refuting the lies of men and the doctrine of demons.

I will be using this info to refute the oneness error in the future. Keep Preaching the truth sir!

In response to JN Anderson: Read the bible without your pre-conceived erroneous oneness " man-ology " that you have and you will have your answer. The application of language has changed and when you were talking about the "express image" that is exactly how many Apostolic brethern describe Jesus. That if he himself is the father he can be no more than the image of God in Jesus Whereas the original language of the text indicated that Jesus IS God, but there is an ontologocial distinction made, not soelely based on role as is often taught, but based on person, mind, will and intellect.

So from a scriptural standpoint the "express image" would have to indicate more than a mere reflection of God. It would have to indicate that the person of Jesus is God! This is a distinction that Apostolic doctrine does not make In those instances God must somehow leave Jesus the son to do something as the Father???

This misses everything that scripture teaches about the nature of the Father and Son. I don't care how it's dressed up, at the end of the day the Apostolic believer, has an issue and a big problem addressing how the Father can speak from heaven, the son stand on the shore and the Holy Ghost descend like a dove at the same time and in the same epoch and they say something like he is the Father in creation, the Son in redemption and the Holy Ghost in the church That is a unscriptural ascription no matter how one's tries to shake it.

Elder Jeffrey, Thanks for the Facebook contact also You asked a few things one making the observation that under the trinitarian concept that there were three God's no matter how we look at it First there's nothing further from the truth and I address this in the article.

Fact is that both of us agree that there is only ONE God and that he is incomprehensible. He is beyond our understanding.

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With that said, how can we rationalize to fully be able to know or understand his nature? What we do know is how he describes himself within scripture and how he interacts. Now, who left where to do this all at the same time??? No, there is a distinction based on relationship not merely based on role as oneness pentecostals claim. Once again, there is a distinction and will or mind of the Spirit also and we see that the Spirit also has a relationship with the Father and Son as being "sent" by the Father, "sent" by the Son and coming to "glorify" Jesus.

In addition that Spirit can be lied to as Peter says in Acts 5. There is a distinction based on being, but not based on essence.

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One God is clear. This is clear throught the gospels, Acts and described within the epistles. So ONE God eternally exists in 3 duistinct persons who have will, mind, intellect and relationship of one another. If God were God as he says that he is, why would we think that we could fully comprehend his nature? He is NOT a man We can apprehend HIS truth based on his description of himself. OK, you say there is no such word as "trinity" therefore its not biblical That is NOT even an argument.

There is no such word as "incarnation" but we know that God put on flesh and dwelt among men do we not? That is incarnation. So there is no requirement for a word to be found in the bible before it is considered to be a biblical concept.

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This is exactly what we would expect if it were true. Then you ask another question but the distinction is in your own writing Jesus never said he IS the Father He sadi that teh Father was IN Him What I see is a problem with the understanding of the hypostatic union in oneness circles. God doesn't die, but yet Jesus humanity does. And he fulfills scripture by reciting, "my God, my GOd why hast thou forsaken me?

By the way This is Symbolism or a vision etc. God humbled himself coming in flesh. When Jesus was on earth the deity did not always over shadow his humanity-he went to sleep etc. What this is is a lack of understanding and a minimization of the scripture. So sorry In addition, at times Jesus veiled his Godship. He never ceased to being God.

He only veiled it at times. So whatever limitations that he displayed were voluntary aspects of his nature where he intentionally veiled himself, not where GOd left him and he was just a man Like the Pharisee we all spend to much time in Debate of the way we see religious things, instead of Loving God with all , and your neighbor as yourself.


That is much more important than the biblical semantics of hermeneutical exegesis and denominational divide about interpretation of certain Scripture Bro! All what our tiny minds could ever concieve is but a spec of who GOD really is. Revelation, knowledges and the like will pass away. Christlover, Your commentary if it were over some practice such as wearing a hat or not wearing a hat or a dark suit or something to that matter would be understood as harmless and loving sentiment and encouragement to find common ground and move forward.

Unfortunately, your commentary displays a total lack of understanding for the importance of the subject, the gospel, the essentials of the faith and ultimately what people gave their life for by way of martyrdom and what we are encouraged by Jude to "earnestly contend" for This is NOT an argument of semantics as you put it. This is an argument of quintessential importance. So this is an issue of great importance and one that cannot simply be sloughed over in language or claiming that language is the prohibitor from understanding or that an understanding hasn't been given.

The revelation of God through his word is not hidden from those that humble themselves to that revelation.

The Son, IS the Son eternally, not just when a hat comes on for him to work within the church. We see him ion the OT described and acting in many ways. So your commentary lacks depth and I feel that a careful and succinct review of information on the subject on your behalf is in order. To wit we all agree to love him is to obey him, but to love him is to acquiesce to how he has revealed himself within his word and teach that to the highest degree at all costs, because only that truth will stand and only that truth will change the hearts of men and mankind.

A counterfeit won't do! Waste of Time overall. This is a nat in the total walk with the one True Undivided God. The weightier things are Love and Peace with all men. Not flesh fighting over Dogma. I've heard BOTH sides of this argument for YEARS, both sides waste time accusing the other side of blatant misinterpretation of obvious scriptures and truth blah blah blah. Serve Christ. Contending for the Faith is about Proclaiming Christ as messiah in contexts bro.


And u know it. Cease dogma debate. It grieves me to see us fight other Christians in the name of the so called Faith we Divide. Many men like yourself have come and gone and the two more similar than not Views remain. Christlover, FIRST, you didn't call me so you have no idea what is a "waste of my time" nor do you know what God has called me to do Obviously not Since YOU are not God then, you can only respond to the subject matter and not to those who espouse views of scripture and doctrine if it is not that YOU are "wasting time" Now which Christ are you referring to?

The Christ that did not exist as Jesus until he was born of a woman, or the Christ that was preexistent with God John. Which Christ is it, the one that wears three hats, moves in three modes or roles or the one that has a distinct will from the Father, has a spacial awareness of the location and identity of the Father and a mind and will that he subjects to the Father's and prays to?

It;s not about you trying to slip in your "semantic lie" argument to minimize the importance of the issue now is it If you can't believe the scripture for who Jesus is as it is laid out within scripture, then why should ANYONE listen to you and how do you feel that you are representing the Jesus of the bible??? To persist is a subjective fantasy of mind, not the objective truth of God's word by which we are all constrained.

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  8. So your opinion on the issue is good, but if you don't want to address issues, your commentary should be confined to the material at hand, not trying to be an overseer of my work or mission. As you can see the subject yields plenty to discuss and plenty to which you should give heed from your prior comments. All parts of the word of God is important and demands our attention We can't simply kick the parts we don't like or what we can't understand and call it "dogma" as if it has no essential importance The early church would slap all these charlatans in the face two times over for that type of childish application of scripture They DIED for this belief and they articulated what they believed and stood for it This modern church is so bogged down in itself and hi-fivin' for what it "thinks" about the word, until it doesn't even know the word!

    The WORD is far from it Be honest, at least admit that the understanding of modalism was not biblical and was rejected early on. Claim it as a progression taught again in the early 's but don't try to hijack the faith with some erroneous understanding and claim it's only a "semantic" That's called a deceit and a LIE!

    God is NOT the Father or author of either of those! I will say this and move on, since I perceive this is your spiritual aim in life. JOHN And John answered and said , Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. You were raised to be dogmatic by your Leaders so you continue in their footsteps. What arrogance and Pride I sense. It seems you Always want to make the path of Christ love about strife and debate within the body, Your own emotions make this the big issue of the world with all it's sin and trouble.

    Im trying to help really Im glad I dont live under that bondage anymore. If someone doesnt agree with me or you doesnt mean they are not Saved man.